Black Dragon is MY Viewer, i decide which feature i want to add and which to remove, i share this Viewer to show the world that user base size is not important, i do rate quality by effort, thought and love put into the project, not some rough estimated numbers. I consider feature requests only if i you can name proper valid reasons i can agree on. It is my (unpaid) time i'm putting into this project, i'm not here to cater to every Joe's desires.

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

Some Questions...

Before i can release, there are a few "things" im not yet sure what to do, so i figured i could ask you what you think about it. Write your answers into a comment like this:

#1. blablabla bla blabla bla

#2. blabla blabla bla blablabla

#3. ...

NOTE: This post might be updated with new questions... so check back sometimes

Updated: I added the overall summary in which my own opinion is also included and what it means for you , no obviously means that it wont be done.

Login & First Use:


Would you like to see a "how do you want your Viewer" screen on first start that will ask you lots of questions and set the Viewer depending on what you set as answer?



Should i rename/relabel "Login to SecondLife(tm)" to just "Login" (is that a more obvious login button for you)?

No, instead make user aware of it beeing a button and not a title.



Should i merge up all the latest development code (earlier than beta), which contains lots of Firestorm Crashfixes, the new HTTP Project (which i had in 1.49), some UI optimizations and other stuff?
(Warning this might make the Viewer again extremly unstable, no guarantee here)

Has to be done, but not yet, will wait until next or next-next Release.

User Interface , Widgets & Labels


Should i re-check all options for better labeling and missing tooltips?

I should re-check them when i come by and someday start a systematic overall check.


Are you happy with the new Preferences Panel or is there something that could be done better (i thought about centering the panels on the right so they dont start at the top and enabling Escape Key to close it)?

Yes, pretty much everyone seems to be happy, ESC close has been implemented and the Preferences Panel is beeing investigated if theres something that could be finetuned.


Do you want Floaters (windows) to fade out on close (or fade in on opening) like toasts (system messages , IMs and chat) do?

Probably not, maybe some day...


Would you like to see a re-design of the main UI (Navigationbar , Favoritesbar , Menubar , IM chiclets , Local chat , Toolbars etc) and what do you think could it look like (more MMO-ish? something completely new?)?



Do you think the FPS bar (not text , at the top right) is useless and could be replaced/forced to text style all the time?

Yes, its useless and has been removed.


Do you like the default skin or could there be something way simplier (like LL style grey as example)?

The default seems pretty ok, will delay any plans on doing a new skin infinitely until theres a reason to do a new one.


Does the Viewer have enough options to set your preferred graphics or do you know anything else thats missing or could be added?




Do you like the new layout and look of the Blog or was the old one better?

The old one seems alot better to most people, however i liked the old one more because it was different. New one will remain however.


Should i shorten my blog posts (release posts)? Should i lengthen them (explain more)?




Did my shader fix help you enabling Vertex Shader and/or Deferred , Shadows and that stuff that didnt want to activate previously?

Fixed for those that had problems enabling certain options, did not alter the experience for everyone else. Perfect.


What do you think about this song? could it be used for a new video? maybe for login?


What do you think about the whole "No @ 98% of Firestorm/Phoenix features" philosophy?

Its fine. It makes the Viewer what it is and i would have never even thought about changing this philosophy.


Did you ever try the new scripting editor with all its new colors and layout? Is it good (i had no problems when scripting with it)?

Those who script seem to like it, the rest cant tell.


Should there be less updates? Should they stay on a regular base or more on a "when its done" one?

Regular is good but "when its done" is also good, meaning that nothing will change...


Should i implement some sort of Live Chat for helping as example?

By GOD are you crazy , NO!


Do i really have to implement a Viewer doomsday feature that disables the Viewer as soon as an update is online to make you update regulary?

Those who read my blog obviously answer no, those that dont read it... are those at which this question was directed, making this decision hard, but probably... no.


  1. 1 no as long as all the options are clear in prefs
    2 maybe "click to login" for idiots
    3 not if it becomes unstable - I'm liking it now :)
    4 meh ... trivial
    5 prefs is OK
    6 not especially
    7 nope - unless you have a great idea you want to try.
    8 yes text is useful - bar is meaningless
    9 like the skin fine
    10 maybe saveable one-click user config presets
    11 i like the new layout
    12 write all you want
    13 all works good
    14 song too much for login - would make me nervous & forget my password
    15 fine
    16 didn't try it yet
    17 i like to play with new versions :)
    18 not really
    19 NO

    1. @10 you do know that theres a Graphic Preset feature (that secretly saves all your settings)?

    2. Where is it? That's exactly what I meant.

    3. DOH! Ok I'm an idiot ... right at the top ...

  2. 1. no
    2. no
    3. yes, as new as possible.
    4. yes
    5. any way you like it.
    6. no
    7. no
    8. yes
    9. simpler is better
    10. yes
    11. no preference
    12. it's your blog, write what you want
    13. it all works
    14. no preference ... I don't stay on the login page long enough to hear it.
    15. it's ok
    16. I don't work with scripts
    17. Weekly is good if you can get the viewer updated in one week.
    18. no
    19. no I always update as soon as you post the updates.

  3. 1. no
    2. no
    3. yes
    4. no
    5. no i like it as it is
    6. no
    7. no
    8. bar useless, stick to text
    9. nice simple skin
    10. enough options
    11. new layout good
    12. i like what you write, the more the merrier (but dont do extra work)
    13. works fine
    14. nice song, but i dont usually hear it as dont stay long enough on login page
    15. excellent
    16. im not a scripter so cant comment
    17. i like the regular updates, thanks
    18. no
    19. definitely not

    Thanks for this great viewer, i love it, leaves the others standing

  4. 1. no - Since there is so many different machines etc., it would possible be easier to change graphics in world.

    2. no - I think either way is fine, the only thing is now after entering details pressing enter doesn't automatically log you in, how the new front layout is sweet.

    3. I think you should add the latest code to keep the viewer at the edge, and keep up the warnings that it might crash etc. I am not sure if FS fixes are needed unless it fixes something within your viewer. This viewer is the only one I use and your top when it comes to fixing stuff, so I think you should continue the way you always have :)

    4. Yes - At least the missing tooltips, specially with graphics as this helps an awful lot on knowing what to turn on or off, and what effects good or bad it might have on the viewer/in world.

    5. I like the preferences panel, with the sliding out menus. The logic of being on the left makes sense, and once you open up the panel your looking for it is almost in the center anyway.

    6. It might just be my system but each time I have opened floater the viewer freezes for like a second, and there is a slight drop in FPS, obviously the more I open the slower it goes, so although fading looks nice, I am not sure because I don't want to be waiting even more for the floater to open. (The whole freezing when opening people, inventory etc could be my system NOT the viewer itself)

  5. 7. I like the UI as it is, specially since you can move pretty much everything around as you wish it to be. The possibility of an MMO style could go with a choice like the way you move around. I currently like the fact that I have a lot of space to see what's going on, the buttons are easy to hand, and everything can be moved.

    8. The text is a lot better than the bars, it is a lot easier to tell if there is a problem.

    9. Love the skin, although, alternate ones could be done again.

    10. More than enough, if some of the tooltips could be fixed that would be a help. Still unsure if some of the (!) stuff can be used again or not.

    11. The blog should be as you wish it to be. Both I've seen so far allow you to read what's going on and download the viewer.

    12. Your posts can be as long or as short as you wish them to be. Sometimes it is necessary for them to be long if there are big changes, shorter if not so big. Maybe though include the forum a little more, since that can be very useful for bug fixing, helping others etc.

    13. Can't comment really as I've never had a problem activating those things however, I am not sure that simply cause the box is ticked they are working, so as with lots of things for the viewer I would say that what you do to fix things, and add stuff works very well. :)

    14. Not sure I really like songs at the login, although, I admit I liked the Halo one you have, and the music that went with the previous one, and the one before was quite nice. I think the music needs to be more a background sound, or softer piece, specially since most people will simply enter details and login.

    15. I believe that this is YOUR viewer, that a lot of us enjoy using. Personally I don't like FS, nor do I trust those making it. This viewer is different because it doesn't have all the bells and whistles. So, if you add the FS stuff, then it takes away the reasons you made the viewer, and it's uniqueness. There may be a couple of features, that would be nice, but certainly a majority of the FS stuff you've not put in isn't necessary. Please don't make the viwer a FS clone. I think one thing was temp uploading, but I am pretty sure you've given reason as to why that isn't in your viewer. :)

    16. I haven't done scripts so not used it.

    17. I think your weekly updates is nice, unless there really isn't anything to update. If there is major bugs then you can do hotfixes possibly but I think you have the balance about right.

    18. Well there is your in world group/s, along with the forum where people can go for help and others can post tutorials etc, so I don't think a live chat is necessary, plus people would need to be around to answer, and that doesn't always help if a) there isn't anyone, b) wrong information is passed out.

    19. That could be useful if there is something that will break the viewer. For example LL changing something that will break a viewer. Other than that people can see here when you update the viewer.

    1. Sorry for the double post but it wouldn't let me put it all in, in one post :)

    2. My reason not to include temp upload of textures is because LL already implemented a "better" way by having automatically refreshing local textures on your object which you can edit and save and watch them change inworld and upload as soon as you like them how they are , this both works for inworld objects and skins/clothes. You can find this feature by just opening a texture picker (e.g clicking on a select texture field and then clicking the "Local" radio button at the top of that window)

    3. Thank you for your reply and yes I totally forgot about that bit. I would like to say your viewer for me is the best by far and I don't think you should stop doing things the way you are doing them.

      I also think that you should stick to your ways of updating the latest stuff and leaving out things you don't want in your viewer. After all you have stated before that you share your viewer with us (which I am sure many are very grateful for) and it just wouldn't be your viewer, that we love so much if you started to include all the things you've deliberately left out, and well, if you stopped putting the latest stuff in then again it wouldn't be your viewer.

      You always say when things might not work properly, and alike so please don't change too much :).

  6. only questions i'll answer, seems useless still:
    1 - 7 Don't mind other way!
    8 - Alone on this 1, i hate the text fps and only use the reg bar!
    9 to 14 - don't mind other way!
    15 - As some already said, its your viewer, but inbuld ao, catnip minimap revamp and flirk upload i'd like to see!
    16 - Sorry but hate the new collor for the scripts!
    17 - No, as some also pointed, week updates are nice! forcing to use them its not!
    18 - Personally, unless you have any to attend those live chats, i say NO!
    19 - See point 17, NO!

  7. #1: Nice to have but not essential
    #2: Either option works.
    #3: Go for it :)
    #4: I haven't spotted any glaring omissions.
    #5: So long as I can set everything the way I want, on a fairly clean layout I dont mind what that layout actually IS.
    #6: sure.
    #7: keep it clean and keep it optional - MMO-ish isn't something that would suit me at all
    #8: yes
    #9: I like it
    #10: DoF presets to switch easily between frequently used settings
    #11: Both work. New one seems a bit cleaner.
    #12: They are about right
    #13: Never had that problem
    #14: Quite possibly
    #15: Your viewer your rules. If somebody asks "can you do this like $OTHER_VIEWER does" and you like the idea by all means implement it. If you dont, dont.
    #16: works for me :)
    #17: regular basis is good, if you go down the road of basing off dev rather than beta from #3 I would NOT make them less frequent than they currently are.
    #18: we'd rather see you coding than answering dumb questions ;)
    #19: Probably not. Last thing you want is for half your users to have an issue with a particular release and be unable to run the version they have that works for them - even if that means they are putting up with an issue you've fixed in the most recent ones. If you do implement this make sure you only kill off REALLY old versions.

    1. @19, actually, no, this would just mean that all version starting at the one containing this doomsday feature will be killable , all older ones without that feature can be used, however i heard i can ask Oz to kill them which im will most likely do as there are 32 different versions of my viewer online on the grid right now which i think is not just bad its also embarrassing and somehow shows that i dont have my viewer and its users under a certain level of control

    2. If you are selecting particular releases that you determine to be so broken they need to die and explicitly killing them, rather than saying "old version is too old and will now croak" even my mild objection goes away :)

  8. #1 No
    #2 No, I like the login to SecondLife
    #3 50:50 - might make things even better, or worse - your effort, your decision
    #4 I think any users of your viewer are beyond tooltips
    #5 I'd like my IM chiclets at top right, maybe a choice?
    #6 Sounds cool :)
    #7 Again, your effort, so your decision. I like the way you have it now, but I'll probably like a change
    #8 I use this all the time, so I like it
    #9 Yes, I like the skin you use, but get as creative as you want
    #10 Yes, enough
    #11 Like the new one
    #12 They're usually enough to keep me entertained whilst I await download and install - say as much as you need to!
    #13 Didn't have a problem before
    #14 Totally up to you, but good choice
    #15 Your viewer, your choice. Like me asking to give me a choice of top or bottom right for IM chiclets - you like the idea and you wanna do it, fine. You don't, then don't.
    #16 Yes, it's easier to use than the Lab viewer (or anyone else's) but I'm not big on scripting
    #17 Regular is good, but you're not under production contract here - when it's done, it's done is totally fine :)
    #18 Only if you want to become your own helpdesk. Nice folks who appreciate that you share this with us, will probably never bother you, other folks who think they're entitled to get your help, not understanding you do it because you want to, will probably annoy you endlessly
    #19 Not really, I use RSS to know when there's an update. I realise however there is an issue when counting stats when your users are on more than one viewer - perhaps a compromise: NICE BIG NEW VERSION AVAILABLE, on the login screen perhaps?

  9. #1. No, this is only helpful for a first time user. I'm not one of them :)
    #2. That doesn't matter. Better create a subacent icon that looks like a button.
    #3. Yes
    #4. For me not necessary. I use the German version and I miss nothing.
    #5. Preference panel is fine regarding layout. But closing it with Esc key would be fine.
    #6. No. To much fading is childish. I want a viewer - not a movie player ;)
    #7. The only thing I would prefer are toolbar buttons instead of the upper left buttons in the navigation panel (TP Home, Environment Settings, Sky Settings, etc.). Because I have all my toolbar buttons at the bottom edge of the screen, it would be more faster to use (especially the environment settings).
    #8. First I didn't like the text display. Now I get used to it. But the bars are not useless (e.g. if you want to see packet loss).
    #9. I like the UI as it is.
    #10. There are enough options for viewer graphics. I would only like to have a quick selection for Windlight Sky Presets. For example, two arrow buttons that I can jump forward and backward through the presets.
    #11. The new one is more browser friendly.
    #12. If you write it, I'll read it.^^
    #13. This doesn't concern me.
    #14. I don't listen the music on the login page.
    #15. This is ok. All I need is inside your viewer.
    #16. Until now, I didn't test the new layout. But maybe a longtime scripter prefers the standard syntax highlighting (like in the LSL wiki).
    #17. Bring an update if you have something new oder fixed. This could be after a week, or two, or three...
    #18. Not necessary for me.
    #19. No!

    1. @4 especially the german version is meant , go to Preferences - Camera and look at "Appearance" and "Edit/Build" (Aussehen) & (Bearbeiten/Bauen) checkboxes, do you know what they do just from their labels? i dont think so... however i fixed that^^

      @8 is just meant for the FPS counter which is by default set to text display now , the net stats bars will always remain as they are.

      @10 see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_o55gDAoY
      make sure you disable the Windlight Animations if you want to do it that quick ;) , the debug is called RenderInterpolateWindlight or RenderWindlightInterpolateTime if you just want to shorten the time it takes to switch from one preset to another

  10. Niran, either please post these questions in a forum post or use something like:

    Would have to C&P all those questions. Plus probably have some you havn't listed
    Also, posting here restricts replies to those with google accounts.

    1. i´ve already got NC´s so, basically they can answer here , inworld via NC , group , forum , SLU , whatever they like

    2. terrible idea, i need to pay to make more than 10 questions , and im not going to do 2 surveys or more just because i do have 19 questions and may be adding more.

  11. This was a joke, right ? I mean...since when did you care what others thought your viewer should be ?

    1. Since i became inquisitive 20 years ago when i was born, but right i should ignore everything and show you the bird

    2. LOL...of course you should...but I know your going to do things 'your way' regardless of what others say they want....and that has endeared me to you from when at the very beginning of your starting to make your own viewer to now...your independent mindedness...remember when you doubted your ability to do it after KirstenLee left and a handful of us urged you to go ahead and try it? You have come a long way baby...and it was your own determination, drive, and love for machinima that has led to your current success...not following other peoples long lists of wants.

  12. 1. no
    2. no
    3. yes
    4. yes if you have time
    5. indifferent
    6. no
    7. no
    8. yes
    9. love it
    10. yes
    11. like the new one
    12. is up to you. I happy to read.
    13. all ok
    14. if you like.
    15. it's ok
    16. good enought for my poor script ability
    17. when is done is done
    18. no
    19. may by for unstable or too old version, Nice a pop up at login with new version avaible

  13. 1: That would be very nice
    2: Yes
    3: I'm in for crash fixes and HTTP Project, but not for too much instability~
    4: Yes. I also will spend time translating all that French stuff I never finished.
    5: I like the new preferences panel, but sometimes the UI takes a bit too long to appear/slide in.
    6: As long as it doesn't murder FPS, I'm okay with that.
    7: No MMO, please. T_T
    8: FPS bar is kinda useless, yes. Hurray for text!
    9: I like the default skin, but I use mine most of the time (which I will fix and update soon, and send you). No LL-style, gah, fucks sake.
    10: Only thing I can think about is a way to reduce Local Lights brightness at render level, because with deferred, I have to mod every house to have projectors otherwise I go blind~
    11: I tend to prefer fluid layout blogs, and honestly I prefered the other one for that. But this one is a bit more professional. I dunno.
    12: Do not shorten them!
    13: I never had this issue, but my friend commented that it worked for her.
    14: I like the song, but if you use it, get an HD version and a better video :P
    15: Errr. I don't want this viewer to become Yet Another Firestorm, but there's some features that I miss and that I know I'm not alone. (Radar, mostly. Client AO is fine too. PM me if you want to save yourself some work, I already ported FS's AO to V3.)
    16: Last time I tried it (two releases ago), it was broken. I shall test it again.
    17: I like the current release model. Perhaps make a "stable" release once every one/two months or something and release others as "dev/milestone" ?
    18: Err... Don't we have the Nirans Viewer group for that? If people can't bother to join a group... ಠ_ಠ
    19: Just a "hey, there's a new version available" message would work. I'm sure some people has a reason not to upgrade.

    -Tarnix (Miguael.Liamano)

  14. #1 No, I don't want lots of questions before I log in. I want to get in and be doing stuff, and if I want to tweak things, I would rather do it when I can see the results.
    #2 Yes, that sounds a good idea. A couple of people have mentioned to me it took them a bit of time to figure out how to log in.

    #3 I'm not qualified to comment. As a user, I'd rather you didn't make the viewer unstable, but I don't understand the advantages and disadvantages of the two courses of action. Do whatever is best for you
    #4 Alwats a good idea, but you probably have more pressing calls on your time.
    #5 Yeah, I'm content with it as it is.
    #6 No, when I dismiss them I would rather they didn't hang about
    #7 No, I'm content with the UI as is. More changes would not be unacceptable but I don't think it's a pressing need.
    #8 Yes. I prefer text for that.
    #9 I like the default, but I would quite like a simple grey, too.
    #10 Yeah, plenty options
    #11 I like the new blog layout.
    #12 They are fine as is.
    #13 N/A I didn't ever seem to have much of problem with that.
    #14 I don't much like it, but no strong feelings.
    #15 I applaud it.
    #16 Yeah. I like it (though I do still do most of my scripting in LSLEditor)
    #17 I quite like the regular updates, but I guess there's no point in putting them out for the sake of it. Whatever works best for you.
    #18 I don't really see the need.
    #19 Not for me. I subscribe to the update RSS feed.

  15. Here my opinions:
    #1: YES
    #2: YES
    #3: YES
    #4: YES
    #5: YES But improvements are welcome
    #6: I DON'T CARE
    #7: YES, but optional
    #8: YES
    #9: NO
    #10: YES
    #11: YES
    #12: NO
    #13: YES
    #14: Pretty nice
    #15: I don't agree the philosophy which stops "a priori" every features that are in firestorm if these features are really useful. It is not a productive philosophy. I want a better viewer, indipendently from where the features come. No racism for features.
    #16: it is very good
    #17: several releases are better.
    #18: YES
    #19: NO

    1. its not called racism, its called selective feature implementation. ;)

  16. 1. Would be nice, but it's fine as is.

    2. No, but make it a little more obvious it's a button. Maybe a slick looking clear-looking embossed button around the text (making it look like a glass/transparent button with the solid text).

    3. I have no educated opinion on this.

    4. Good idea to keep up on that, but I imagine it's a lot of work.

    5. I sometimes wish I could make the background clear so I could see how tweaking the graphics affects things immediately.

    6. Might look better, but not a big deal and I wonder if it would affect performance?

    7. I love the changes made to the Nirans UI. I'd like to see you continue to experiment and improve upon it as you have.

    8. I always change it to text.

    9. I like the default skin. More options are always nice but not important. This is already the best looking viewer UI-wise.

    10. Can't think of anything offhand.

    11. No opinion. Haven't poked around much since the change.

    12. Do what you do!

    13. I haven't noticed anything. This isn't related to the changes to shiny is it?

    14. Seems a bit fast. I generally like the slow, ambient music for the login screen.

    15. More often than not I agree. There are a handful of features Firestorm and other TPVs have that I honestly think LL should adopt into the official viewer because they really do improve things SL should do better. You show good judgement most of the time, there are a few you've declined to add that I'd like to see. One of them practically requires me to change viewers to build. (The one that lets you change the rotation point from a group/object to the root or last selected individual prim. Insanely useful when building.) Still, I would not like to see "the floodgates open". If I wanted all of Firestorm's features I'd be using Firestorm.

    16. I have no opinion. I don't do much scripting, I will say that it hasn't made things more difficult for me when I have had to script.

    17. When it's done is fine by me. Since the viewer requires me to redo all of my settings with every update I'd rather those updates be worth the hassle.

    18. wot?

    19. I don't see the need for a "doomsday" feature, however if you did implement one you should make a video showing scenes of carnage and destruction in SL while playing "Doomsday" by Nero at the "viewr disabled" screen. Really, I'd rather the viewer just politely pointed out a new version was available.