Thursday, January 31, 2013

How to effectively destroy Niran.

What you need:

-Second Life
-Lots of bugs in Second Life
-Lindens
-Community
-TPV Devs
-1x Niran

Instructions:

Let your Niran find one of the above mentioned bugs that occour in Second Life , it will make him happy and we will need him as happy as possible so the predefined end is as devasting as possible. Now bring in one of your Lindens and make Niran open a Jira for the bug he found , make him create repositories , fixes and all that unnecessary stuff so he wastes as much time as possible , make sure to give him a feeling that he will get it fixed. Let him try to get as much people from the community as possible to support him to successfully fix this issue , now bring in the TPV Devs and keep them collared like animals so they know that they cant do anything against you , just let them be the collared Devs they are , they will do their job pretty well. In best case they will tell your Niran that he cant do anything about it and that they wont support him. Wait some time , let stuff be stuff and watch how your Niran will waste lots of time to prepare and do all kinds of shit to get his bug fixed as good as possible. When he´s done with preparing everything , creating documents , scripts , patches , repositories and all that stuff its the right time to beat his face with a Mace. Close his Jira , tell him that everything he did was totally pointless and you´re laughing your ass off watching him waste so much time in hope he will do something good to make Second Life a better place.

Additionally make a Snapshot of his smile as it literally turns around 180° and pops out of his face.
Profit.

Again thanks to everyone who tried helping me with
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-162
I think its time to bail out here and give up on everything , its all just a waste of time if Lindens and TPV Devs  just keep Second Life as broken as it is. I hope you´re happy with what you´ve done , i hope you have fun seeing me having pain in the ass like that

for my users , i will do one last release sometime soon (not sure yet) and i guess thats it then , i will just return to what i´ve done prior to creating a Viewer that doesnt try holding the users hand and wants to improve Second Life instead of keeping its broken state.

51 comments:

  1. Hey Niran,

    Don't take it so personally :) the world is full of assholes like Lindens ... more than you know ... but you have made us users happy with the best we can get from a weak corporation ... and your skill and experience are never wasted ... maybe you can be the God of Third Life!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "You kept everything inside and even though I tried
      it all fell apart
      What it meant to me,
      will eventually,
      be a memory ,
      of a time when..


      I tried so hard
      and got so far
      But in the end
      it doesn't even matter
      I had to fall
      to lose it all
      But in the end
      it doesn't even matter
      I've put my trust in you
      Pushed as far as I can go
      And for all this
      there's only one thing you should know...

      I've put my trust in you
      Pushed as far as I can go
      And for all this
      there's only one thing you should know...

      I tried so hard
      and got so far
      But in the end
      it doesn't even matter
      I had to fall
      to lose it all
      But in the end
      it doesn't even matter"

      Source: Linkin Park

      Delete
  2. Sad. I can't use any other viewer. Nirans turned SL into something real, a second real life.

    ReplyDelete
  3. 'Got to believe in believin.. got to believe in a dream' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wT9zVLvRHA

    ReplyDelete
  4. Niran, I think your viewer is the best. I use it every day. Over a year ago I was morning the loss of development of the Kirsten Viewer. I'd really hate to go through that again with the loss of your viewer too.

    Sometimes you just have to do the best you can, improve what you can, and accept the things you can not change. Those words may be for you... or they may be for me if I can't change your mind. Either way, I appreciate the enjoyment you've given me with your viewer. I'd really hate to see it go away.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Not being a fun girl of you, nevertheless i recognize and a few know how much i make efforts for others to use your viewer!
    So i ask you to rethink your position:
    Cause Sl users need the best, no matter what the other tpv, ll or whatever junky that uses the wrong hardware can say|

    ReplyDelete
  6. Some great viewers are past now. New viewers are not user friendly. You made great one but Lindens are Lindens (not user nor third part friendly). I`ve already canceled my SL account. Thank you for your great work i enjoyed.

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  7. I seriously hope that you re-consider, as your viewer is by far the best. All of your users know how hard you work on it. Linden will always be Linden sadly, and maybe you shouldn't waste your time putting in Jira stuff etc that you know they will not fix.

    I would hate for this viewer to end simply because it has everything I want, and well look at it, look at your snapshots, nothing else comes close. I would and I hope others don't mind me saying would HATE being reduced to either using LL's viewer or Firestorm etc, they don't have a scratch on this viewer.

    I can understand your frustration, I can understand how much you have basically been kicked in the face when you do the job for them and they say "go away", but I do hope that you can calm yourself, take heed in not putting in Jira's etc and can find it within yhourself to keep your most excellent viewer going.

    If not then along with a lot of others thank you for a fantastic viewer, one that I hope will last a good while yet.

    I really really hope you reconsider cause the viewer is a testament to what can be achieved when someone is as dedicated as yourself.

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  8. Certainly hope you reconsider considering your viewer is the only one that seems to be coded correctly to allow PROPER performance.

    Don't let THEM get you down. Fix what you can fix and if its not fixable by you don't get OCD about it. Move onto something else!

    ReplyDelete
  9. Niran, i too hope you reconsider. Yours is by far the best looking and best performing viewer. I have been around SL for some time, and have seen several TPV go by the way side for various reasons. But I can say out of all of them, I have enjoyed your viewer the most. Like people have said, the Lindens will be Lindens. Like most companies involved in online "games", they say they listen to their customers, but only really with the interest one would have with a buzzing fly. Either way, I do thank you for all the work you have done. I know a lot of long hard work went into it.

    P.S. Is there a chance begging, pleading, and maybe some serious Niran worship might help to change your mind??

    ReplyDelete
  10. niran i wrote this in my blogger blog if i knew anything about coding and writing it and all the stuff that goes into making a viewer i would help you niran to make this a better sl for everyone now while i dont have a computer that can run your viewer full effect what i saw was still amazing and beautifull and i will be sending a link to my blog to where you can read the full post at the top http://justinsecondlifeadventures.blogspot.com/ feel free to look and read and i think your viewer was the best dont give up hope you just may yet make a faboulous comeback

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  11. your viewer rules man, keep working on it. i cant bear SL without it now... it looks too pretty

    ReplyDelete
  12. I guess this means no double hand beams :<

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hi Niran, you are and you have been a crazy bastard. In the best sense. Otherwise a single person project could not live to such a perfection as your viewer has until today. SL and LL are twisted, all right. But you twisted it back in place often enough. I will miss your viewer.

    All right enough of the schmoozing, you are a terrible communicator and too impulsive. Hopefully you'll change your mind...

    ReplyDelete
  14. I'll miss this viewer. I don't know very much about many upcoming changes, but I do recall reading that LL plans to change the way avatar rebaking works entirely, which was part of the influence that pushed the firestorm team into cutting off Phoenix. So this makes me wonder:

    If you don't continue developing this viewer, does this mean the last release will be broken in a rumored few months or less, when avatar rebaking will be changed? Or will it somehow be prepared for that?

    Thanks for making something unique that stood out before the others. I truly appreciate the way you changed SL and allowed us to feel more connected to it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i guess the last release will have Materials and Sunshine implemented aswell as it will be absolutely up to date to that time , it will most likely have some fixes , lots of cleanup especially UI wise and maybe some last feature requests , but thats it , i will most likely continue to develop my Viewer in a somewhat slow motion like speed , privately however , this will allow me to do changes i would have never done before like radically redesigning the whole UI in an even more radical way than i already did with some parts , not sure if i will give it out to people if they ask nor if i will continue my blog in any way but im sure the coming months will be pain in the ass , more than 2012 in a whole was...

      maybe i might also just use another Viewer and start modding that one to my likings ... i really dont know..

      Delete
    2. Very understandable :) I wish you the very best and if you do decide to continue it in any direction, I'll look forward to any release you want to share!

      Delete
  15. Aya words are wise and i can't add more to them!

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  16. Niran, you wrote last year that you are 19 years old, maybe now around 20. Really - what have you been expecting? Many people told you in the JIRA-ticket already, that your bug fix would break shit tons of existing content.

    You even wrote yourself in the commentary to your patch the same.

    So taking that into consideration, you are overreacting and acting like a sullen human being, but not a rational human being.

    Calm down and rethink all that kind of stuff again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree that Niran should have expected the outcome, this is pretty standard for LL. However you appear to be misinformed on several points.

      First, Niran's fix would not have broken any content. Complaints to the otherwise were irrational fears stoked by people without much understanding of the issue. Niran's comments were intended to placate those fears.

      Also, you seem to have missed the part where Niran was instructed to submit this issue to the Jira and given false hope by Lindens who let him put a lot of time and effort into doing their work for them, only to be told they never intended to seriously implement it. That's what is known as a "dick move".

      Delete
    2. Penny is totally right about this. It was a "dick move" and if Niran is still young maybe he can take the lesson from this that when you are as talented as he is and you show up petty people with power you will often get the "dick move" on you.

      Delete
    3. @Penny,

      Less a dick move, more a standard one in corporate circles.... example.

      George tells Tom, when he read an earnings report, he noticed issues showing false information that Product A passed testing, when the rest results showed bugs, Tom tells George to show him the report, he'll look into it. 2 Weeks later the product launches, George comes back to Tom reminding him bugs are in the system, he asks to be shown the information so he can make sure the bugs were fixed before product release. Following day George still sees no email, he emails Tom for another, Tom reply's telling him that it's being looked into and to be quiet about it. Again George requests more info, this time from Toms Superior Bob. next day George comes in, and approached by HR, and is fired for "Insubordination" when he wasn't insubordinate ever, records falsified making it look like George harassed Tom for the information((Didn't happen here, but this is a face to face example, not a over the web example)), following day George buys the product, and realizes what he feared... the bugs were never fixed.

      Obviously until the next Linden Labs viewer is released we will find if they refined and fixed any and all TPV Devs noticed, if few are fixed, and even more were given possible fixes by TPV's it's safe to say Linden Labs doesn't give a flying fucknut about what is and isn't broken about this new rebaking implementation and just wants it released.

      Delete
  17. For my own selfish reasons, I hope you reconsider and continue working on your viewer. It is by far my favourite SL viewer and I'd be sad to see it go.

    On the other hand, I can certainly understand. SL has not seen any meaningful improvement since I joined in 2005. Largely due to LL's own inability to understand content creation, or how bugs like this add up and compound SL's problems.

    Whatever you decide, thanks for making one of the best viewers SL ever saw.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Like Penny said, reasons I would prefer to not see this viewer go is it by far has the best render, it's filled with all the necessary things, doesn't have any sweet filling, but it always seemed like you were finding ways to add more sweet chocolate in the already amazing cookie that is your viewer. They are selfish, but I also know if it wasn't your intention to let the world have a chance at seeing what your capable of Niran, you'd have never made this blog, and shared with us your viewer.

      That being said, that is a selfless reason to keep this viewer going, regardless what occurred... that reason is you are doing on your own what others do with teams, I understand it's hard work, don't get me wrong there. I use to mod bethesda games almost regularly, and I know how hard it can be to take scripts, and codes, in a broken engine, and modify them without breaking the boundaries set by another company. But that said... if you ever think of a future in any sort of computer programing Job.. your viewer would be something to say "Well when I was 19, fresh out of High School, I started this, on my own..." And I have a good idea, few people can ponder taking Lindens Labs viewer, and modifying it so it can render in quality past it's threshold. After all no one but you, and Exodus's team has done it well enough to past my Eye Test... and I've the eyes of a PC Gamer, who sits and modifies ENB Presets for hours, starting and restarting skyrim for 2 hours until the lighting, paralax, and SSAO/SSIL was perfect, and I was hoping to see SSIL in a future update, cause I could SMELL it coming, with Reflection and SSAO, Indirect Lighting, and Complex Indirect just seemed like the natural next step, and after that Detailed Shadowing... then... perfection... ether that or finding a way to work in Specular Maps

      Delete
  18. I just got a PC capable of running SL at high graphics quality. I tried every viewer out there, and all of them pale in comparison to Niran's. After using Niran's for a week, I logged on with another highly regarded viewer to check something out, and it was intolerable. You have made a beautiful thing, Niran, and made SL a more beautiful place. I'm sorry you went through that nightmare, and I hope you change your mind. But, of course, your users are selfish...we want the best.

    ReplyDelete
  19. May I add my voice to those imploring you not to give up because LL are being dicks....

    You've without question produced the very best viewer to date for running on machines with decent graphics capabilities. I'd have a very hard time going back to a less visually-satisfying alternative.

    Getting a hard time from LL and all the hassle that comes with supporting a viewer and still producing a result that goes so far beyond the others out there is something we will remember with gratitude even if your eventual decision is to cut it loose.

    I hope you can see your way to continuing, but if not I might bug you for details of your build environment and beg you to at least keep the source code repo current as you work on your own developments. I'm way too crappy a coder to work on it myself but I do know how to build stuff from source and that's worth it to keep up with a viewer as awesome as yours.

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  20. Just started today with Niran's viewer .... have to say it is the only viewer that really works in Second Life ...it is so awesome... simply the best without qualification.

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  22. Had to edit my spelling....
    Niran, I truly hope you don't stop development, but no one could blame you if you do. You and your viewer represent the future of SL. If you look at the Lindens, and at many of the other TPV developers, they are old and making viewers for people that are even older. They have been doing it forever and they don't like change...even when that change is clearly the correct thing to do. As new people arrive in SL, and there are so few of us as it is, it is nice to have someone who is looking ahead, and not looking backwards. Your viewer is a substantial achievement! It is by far my favorite viewer to date and offers an SL experience no one else offers.

    You attempted a good thing and were shot down by people who are lazy and don't take the pride in their work that you do. It won't be the last time that happens to someone who tries to make things better. Don't let them win Niran! Whatever you decide...thank you for all you have done.

    God grant me the serenity
    to accept the things I cannot change;
    courage to change the things I can;
    and wisdom to know the difference.

    Soda

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. At 47 I totally embrace change, so enough with the oldie discrimination shit. If it hadn't been for old people like me, who were all young once, you wouldn't have that internet stuffs you take for granted - and we had to wait half our life for.

      Sorry, I don't mean to have a go, but I really hate discriminatory generalisation like, "they are old and making viewers for people that are even older. They have been doing it forever and they don't like change...even when that change is clearly the correct thing to do."

      It's nothing to do with age, it's to do with individuals being pricks, like they can be. It's probably, in fact, got a great deal more to do with some individuals being jealous of the obvious talent Niran has, especially if they might consider he is embarrassing them, the great "professional developers" to aspire to a bit more effort, detail and imagination.

      Delete
    2. @Magnus

      I believe you misinterpreted S Sullivan's statement.

      The way I read it, she wasn't referring to people who were old age-wise, she was referring to SL "oldbies", longtime SL users. People who joined wit the V1 interface, who throw a fit whenever any changes, no matter how small or how necessary, are made.

      I've been in SL since 2005, so I think I qualify to fit into the "oldbie" category, but I'm not offended by the remark because there's certainly some truth to it. A lot of long time SL users really are extremely reluctant to embrace changes and improvements to the SL User Interface and default settings. This has been demonstrated time and time again.

      Certainly not all long time SL users are like that, but it is common and LL does tend to cater to this mindset.

      As for the actions demonstrated by LL, you're quite right that this has nothing to do with age, or even the length of time one has been with LL or in SL, but everything to do with how they carry themselves as individuals.

      Delete
    3. Perhaps you're right, Penny, but it's the Lindens and developers who are described as "old", so I don't see how that can mean long-term residents. Also the reference to these old people making viewers for those who are older, if that does mean long-term resident TPV developers making viewers for longer-term residents, then it's not clear at all.

      If this is the case, I'd agree with S Sullivan, most longer-term users are resistant to change and I accept that I'm unusually receptive to it given that I've been around since 2006.

      I wasn't having a go, but if the comments were age related, I simply wanted to underline that I think Niran's problems with the attitude he is getting are ego related - a reaction of the professional developers to his amateur developer status, and definitely some jealousy around how Niran can come up with such a great viewer, all on his own.

      If I were Niran, I'd keep up the good work - and keep showing them up - show them what one man can do, with limited resources, compared to a team of developers.

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. That's a funny thought: With every day you work and improve your viewer, Niran, you show LL staff how mediocre they are. You do better on your own than a whole company. No better punishment for them but to continue and make their mediocrity evident!

      However I agree with you that SL is full of "bad to worse compromises". We all stick with it because of TINA (There is no alternative). Maybe one day a talented team comes and finally puts something better out there. I'll be among the first to migrate.

      So lange: S'Lebbe geht weider. ;)

      Delete
    6. @Magnus
      I hope Penny cleared it up for you. I am not much younger than you in real years and was not referring to physical age. I am referring to a mentality that has pretty much crippled SL development. In a nutshell, you have this virtual world created by LL that, upon conception, was very advanced with a large amount of potential development wise. Today, it has been leapfrogged by just about every digital game or mmorpg online. Why? Because LL is lazy and old (in their thinking). If something is clearly broken, they typically ignore it and argue that it will be too much of a hassle for everyone to fix it. The grid lines on large photographs was a perfect example. (I just used the word "photographs", so see, I am old) LL new their was a problem for over a year and just shrugged it off and would point you to a photoshop fix that someone else came up with. Lazy! But, by not fixing the little things like Niran is pointing, you kneecap your ability to move forward on big things.
      Then you have users (of all ages) who swear to cling to their V1 viewers till they are pried from their cold dead hands. A virtual world of limited ability is fine with them, so they think it should be fine for everyone. Add to that, TPV developers who devote their time to holding these users hands instead of just ripping the band aid off because heaven forbid we should have to learn to adapt.In fact, heaven forbid we should have to actually learn at all. The end result is that SL is 3-5 years behind where it should be. If not for people like Niran, or the Exodus team, Penny Patton and others doing the heavy lifting, it would be worse!
      Now, here is where i do get a little agist, but hear me out. The new user in SL, is coming into the grid with a very advanced set of expectations. They have become used to WOW, Halo, Guild Wars and other stuff I probably have never even heard of and they look around and scratch their heads and wonder why is it so bad. Luckily, we get some like Niran, who are willing to devote time and effort to try and improve things, and are willing to share that work with the rest of us. How do we reward them? By kicking them in the teeth. The ONLY criticism I have seen of Niran's fix was that it would cause too much work for others.
      That is why I hope you don't stop Niran. We need more Niran's around here, not less!

      Delete
    7. Linden Labs in all honesty, it isn't necessarily old thinking. As much as community pleasantry, I was on SL back in the days where the Mainland had simulated weather which was in the days where not only the client was a beta but the servers with it, When WOW hadn't been hit by a Cataclysmic Event... Then I took a few years off, forgot my ID, and my Email that was linked to it, got tons of emails asking me my Email to verify my old account((Did I mention idk it)) and eventually settled with making a new. Note I never experienced Viewer 2, kinda jumped from 1-3. Frankly, 3's more stable, lost some glamor that one had, but it's a new viewer. If dev's like Phoenix/Firestorm would have supported V3 code base from the start, and other big viewer crews, such as Singularity, and Catznip, and people were less finicky on their community forums, then they could focus more on evolution then pleasing the masses who have outdated rigs. I can't count how many people literally can't run NIran's on High due to a bad rig. or how many peoples frames dip from 20-5fps just by turning on full shadows.

      Then theirs the concept of possible arrogance, similarly portrayed by Sony Entertainment... "If it works well, and people by it, why change?" Similar to Nintendo, and other company... Eventually LL will learn from TPV's especially when Viewers far ahead of the evolutionary curb take president. but... until that time Linden Labs Viewer 3 will stay in the 1960's when it comes to current gen tech, and next gen which is right around the corner and over the horizon.

      PS: Niran don't stop making your viewer, for if you do my eyes may bleed from poor render quality from other viewers ;-;

      Delete
  23. im not good at making an amazing comment, as some did above me.

    I just want to tell you that i have been using your viewer for a long time now and any other viewer i tried in the mean time just made me run back to yours.

    I hope you reconcider it would be a great loss in experiance to many users.

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  24. What you do you say? Your viewer is the best!

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  25. You have invested many countless hours of your personal time to this project. Throwing in the towel would be such a waste! C'mon dude! Your viewer rocks. F*** those who think otherwise!
    F*** the moaners and the losers who can't appreciate anything for what it is.
    -Ryan

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  26. Hi Niran,

    Really hope you reconsider stopping development on your Viewer as it is by far the best viewer for use on High spec machines, I know that LL can be a pain in the ass but really hope you continue

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  27. Hi Niran,

    I hope you will find some time to enjoy things, in SL and outside.
    There is much to explore once you stop feeling responsible for
    other people's inworld experience all the time.
    Did you ever enjoy Jopsy Pendragon's particle show on Hina?
    It used to calm me down when I felt the work load was becoming
    too heavy.

    Good luck finding your way back to happiness!
    RedMokum Bravin

    ReplyDelete
  28. hi there, hope do reconsider your viewer choice. don't know how much this viewer means to me. its made my sl most special way i ever seen it. i don't even think i can go back to original sl viewer or any other tpv i might end up quitting sl leaving all my loved ones behind. cause this is only client even works. runs. performs way i want it to be. i even rely on its RLV features quiet often. i love all features and graphics it offers. Ive even spent a lot on a gtx 690 just to get full experience on this machine. don't let bunch of morons ruin your day or any day. just push forward no matter hoe bumpy road ahead gets and always get somewhere even if not perfect. but if must go. ill miss your viewer and awesome work made sl wonderful thing Ive ever seen. been big fan of your viewer even though never talked until now but it means a lot to me to say something now. hope decide whats best

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  29. also sorry for any spelling mistakes within i cant type to well just tired and typed to fast before bed

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  30. tell you the truth niran, sl fucking stole your codebase as soon as u said your quitting, in fact they did three! forced updates in secondlife beta viewer, where they copied your code ,and alot of its glitches with it, without any of the enhancement to graphics whatsoever. or instance the one problem your latest viewer had when selecting and rezzing targets, to which i had to double an item in my inventory, should up in sl beta, and yours, but not in version 1.49 of yours and default secondlife,- as of a month ago.. so understand lindens are lazy fucking douchebags, and people like you are a HERO, you deserve the respect you earned for the major improvements, i do recommend taking secondlife betas latest source-code, and removing anything "unessesary" ,such as their retarded bars and such, and then stay the hell off of lindens sourcecode,, causethey will surely adda ton of crap that u had removed since the ati fix version.

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    Replies
    1. What. I think you did misunderstand that , the reason why you might fight lots of ... stuff in LL Beta i also have is simply because my Viewer is based on LL Beta , my whole Viewer is basically a LL Beta Viewer with some additional Features , a different UI and some changes here and there + some cleanups (i thought would be fine). There are only 2 things they MIGHT have borrowed , IF they did , they did it in a completely different way , is Animation Speed and Camera Rotation Degree , these can be found in an altered way in LL Viewer now , other than that they cannot take any code from me (atlast thats what i know so far) without me "freely" giving it to them , even tho i accepted that stupid CA and beeing in the TPV list doesnt seem to "allow" them to just take my code without atlast asking (but LL would never ask , instead they would just make you port it to their code for them , just so it can be declined after you´ve wasted your time doing that)

      Also LL will never really enhance graphics if no one rubs it , in a ready-to-merge state , under their noses , thats very sad but only makes other devs and Viewers such as mine , which focus on those parts , shine even more.

      Fact is , no they didnt steal MY codebase , otherwise EVERYONE else would have done the same , i just merged theirs which brought all their features but also nearly all their problems and bugs into my Viewer , i would be surprised if anyone would dare to take my broken , half-hearted set up viewer code as his codebase

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    2. *find ... oh dear i played too much Dead Space 3 already...

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    3. -is +are ... really ... i should go to bed and hope no Necromorphs attack me when im reloading....

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    4. well, can u explain to me , pretty please - the basic step bt steps and the exact programs you use to compile from your source-code? i would make some insanely good builds because i know how to optimize the crap out of anything i touch, problem is im an idiot when it comes to compiling.. please dont laugh, syntax sends me up a wall. but if u could just give me the exact files to download first(i dont care if it costs 1 million dollars ill do it anyways), then the step by step for each and everything from scratch, and to make a generic compile, and maybe an optomized compile,, i would be so happy that ill give u a new awesome place to put your builds and store your files, permanently for about 50 gigabytes... with no upload or download speed limits.

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  31. do the same i did.
    Follow LL's step by step guide

    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile

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  32. Maybe you can consider say Fuck You lindenlabs, and give this excellent viewer to users of OpenSim. Many in the community will be very grateful

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